Conservative political analyst Reihan Salam’s defense of Donald Trump on CNN’s The Chris Wallace Show led to a fiery exchange with fellow panelists Lulu Garcia-Navarro and Kara Swisher, who grilled him over Trump’s health and accused Salam of hypocrisy.

The Manhattan Institute president was responding to Chris Wallace’s question about whether voters were beginning to lose confidence in Trump’s ability to govern as they had with Joe Biden.

“I don’t think so because I think that voters at this point find him familiar,” Salam said. “There’s a way in which Donald Trump was someone who was a norm breaker, he was someone who was drastically different. And now he has become a much more familiar figure. A lot of the stuff is priced in right now.”

His views seemed to irritate The New York Times podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, who bluntly interrupted him with the question “Do you think he’s too old?”

“No, I don’t think he’s too old,” Salam replied.

“And you don’t worry he’s not addled?”

“No I don’t worry that he is.”

Salam, who might have thought he had brushed the two questions aside, suffered another blow as New York magazine podcast host Kara Swisher, who was also on the panel on Saturday morning, interrupted the lively debate.

“Why did you do that with Biden and not notice—you have to be noticing he’s strange?”

Salam, raising his eyebrow, said, “Well I’m not sure that we are talking about political analysis here or you’re asking me for my assessment.”

“Come on, you assessed Biden when he was doing it,” Swisher retorted.

“I think I did it in the style of analysis and thinking through how he’s perceived by voters. So I’m happy to talk about how he’s perceived by voters and the voters who are winnable and persuadable,” Salam continued.

“You were very clear that Biden was too old over and over and over again.”

“Well that’s right Kara and I ultimately came to the conclusion that it seems from what I was saying that there were folks within Biden’s White House who were very concerned about it. Right now these concerns are being raised by people who are entirely comfortable with Joe Biden being president right now, during what is an incredibly fraught geopolitical moment. That does undermine the credibility of the folks who are talking about this.”

Swisher had already made her feelings about Trump’s age known earlier in the show. Referring to an incident where South Dakota governor Kristi Noem helped Trump onstage at a recent rally where was dancing, she said: “Kristi Noem looked like a home health aide trying to get the guy back in the room.”

Then, referring to Noem’s brutal puppy-killing episode, Swisher added “She didn’t know what to do, she was looking for a dog to kill to take focus off him or something.”

After making her outrageous joke, Swisher laughed and apologized to Chris Wallace.