Effie Brown Questioned Matt Damon—and Was Blacklisted by Hollywood. Here’s How She Fought Her Way Back

“Finally,” says Effie Brown, exhaling deeply.

The movie producer is in Manhattan to celebrate the premiere of The Inspection, the closing night film of the 60th New York Film Festival. Directed by Elegance Bratton, it tells the story of a closeted Black man (Jeremy Pope) who enlists in the Marine Corps where he endures ridicule and brutal hazing at boot camp from his unit commander and fellow recruits. That the film’s received strong reviews along the festival circuit is music to Brown’s ears. It’s also a testament to her resilience. Because only seven years ago, Brown found herself effectively blacklisted from Hollywood.

You’ve probably seen the moment it happened. The clip garnered millions of views, went viral, and sparked a national conversation about representation (or the lack thereof) and gatekeeping in Hollywood. It first aired on Sept. 13, 2015, during the fourth season premiere of Project Greenlight, an HBO series produced by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck that saw the superstar pals oversee a contest for first-time filmmakers. The winner’s film received the titular greenlight. Brown convened with the brain trust—Damon, Affleck, and Peter Farrelly among them—to discuss potential directors for a project. When Brown, the only person of color present, raised concerns about the script’s character of Harmony, saying, “[She’s] the only Black person, being a hooker who gets hit by her white pimp,” and that the director should be sensitive to any racial stereotyping, Damon proceeded to talk over her, declaring, “When you’re talking about diversity, you do it in the casting of the film, not in the casting of the show.”

Black Twitter immediately rallied to Brown’s defense, accusing Damon of “damonsplaining” diversity to a woman of color (which he did). While many folks online had her back, Brown soon found that Hollywood did not. Her phone stopped ringing. She began hearing rumors that she was “angry,” “confrontational,” “difficult.” She was in a state of utter panic, thinking her career might be over.

You see, Brown had fought for years—decades—to be in that room. An Army brat from Willingboro, New Jersey, she rose up the ranks of Hollywood from a PA on the softcore series Red Shoe Diaries to serving as director of development for Tim Burton’s production company (thanks to her “producing mentor” Laurie Parker), to producing indie hits like Real Women Have Curves, Rocket Science, and Dear White People.

“I don’t think it’s a surprise that my focus has always been on women, people of color, LGBTQIA+, and people with disabilities, because those are my people,” says Brown. “Those are the people that gave me a shot.”

Now, in addition to producing the films The Inspection (in theaters Nov. 18) and Run Sweetheart Run, a supernatural horror flick that dropped Oct. 28 on Prime, Brown serves as CEO of Gamechanger Films, a financing, production, and development company for films and television that aims to center the aforementioned underrepresented groups. Among their upcoming projects are Sorcerority, a potential fantasy franchise backed by Gabrielle Union and Taraji P. Henson; Paint, a horror film set in the Gullah Geechee community; A Woman of a Certain Age, an erotic thriller following a woman in her 60s; and the directorial debut of Gabourey Sidibe.

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In a wide-ranging conversation, Brown discussed her career and how she made it back on top.

What made you want to enter the film industry in the first place?

That’s such a good question. I always wish I could say it was Casablanca or Citizen Kane, which I love, but truly it was Alien. I remember my father taking me to see that movie and me being really, really affected by it. It was only in my grown years that I realized how much it did affect me, because Yaphet [Kotto], the Black guy, got to live to the bitter end, which was very rare back then. Harry Dean Stanton played his best friend, who was a good ol’ boy, and I remember seeing that when I was like eight—my mother didn’t know my father was taking me, but anyway—I remember thinking, oh, they can be good friends. And it was really remarkable because I got to see a woman save herself. It moved me. And Linda Hamilton in Terminator. She was the mother of the revolution, but she came from humble beginnings as a waitress. I still buy trucks to this day and have a dog because I was like, that’s what I want to be. I remember being deeply affected by storytelling and how that made me feel about myself and the outside world in a hopeful way.

It’s an industry that hasn’t been particularly kind to Black women.

What? That’s a shock. Are you kidding me?! [Laughs]

The fact that someone like Julie Dash isn’t a household name isn’t right.

I know. She’s amazing. And she’s very kind and very wise, and she’s an artist. She’s having her renaissance now. People are finally getting hip to the fact that she was a lonely only back then. And she’s one of the Black female directors who lit the way. But I didn’t really know of a lot of Black female producers except Suzanne de Passe, although she came up through music. You start thinking about patterning or mentoring. With Gamechanger, we have this saying, “You can’t make something about us without us.” I remember coming up and thinking, who’s telling stories about people of color or women or LGBTQIA+ or people with disabilities? They typically weren’t people of that community. I’m grateful for the people that helped me on the come up. They didn’t look like me, and many of them were men, but I’m hopeful that today can be a different day.

Did you ever run up against resistance in Hollywood because of who you are?

I’m grateful that at the time I was young enough where I still believed it was a meritocracy. There are too many stories to pick one, and I now know that those same people would be mortified. It takes people a little bit of time to get used to seeing someone who doesn’t look like them, who’s not the same gender as them, holding shit down. But I’ll be very clear with you: The people who showed the most resistance brought me back again for another movie because at the end of the day they were like, “Oh shit, she knows what she’s doing.” But it was really tough. When I speak to other folks who aren’t used to being in positions of authority, I tell them, “You have to hold the courage of your convictions. You have to stay strong.” But it’s upsetting because we are not allowed to fail. We do not get second or third chances. Women—and especially women of color—know that terrible saying that we all grew up with: “You have to be twice as smart and twice as good to get half of what they get.” Unfortunately, I grew up with that. And now I have to change that mindset.

So, you produced In the Cut.

Ah! Everyone hated that movie!

Oh no, I am a huge defender of In the Cut. I’ve been a fan ever since it came out.

I love it! Jane [Campion] and Laurie [Parker].

It’s wild how much that movie was maligned—and how much Meg Ryan was maligned for doing it. Was that also your first ratings battle as a producer?

It was. That was one of my first times as a producer—with Laurie Parker, who was my mentor. That was a true mentorship because she brought me along with the check. She’s someone who trained me and got me work, and one of the last things we did together was In the Cut in New York. I loved Jane, Mark Ruffalo, Nick Damici, and I thought it was so audacious for what it was doing. I thought Meg Ryan’s character’s sexual awakening was this beautiful adult coming-of-age. I just don’t think America was ready for it. It felt a little bit too much like a foreign film, I guess. And Meg Ryan killed that role. It’s hard for people to see you as something different. People don’t like change. I remember having conversations [with the MPAA] where people were like, “You can’t show an erect penis. You can show a flaccid penis… in the dark. But you can show everything on a woman.” That’s where it became readily apparent in my career that there is a clear bias.

I have to ask: Was that really the full Ruffalo in In the Cut?

Ah! I’m not gonna tell ya! [Laughs] That is Mark’s story to tell.

Dear White People was a big moment for you. I’m curious what things were like for you after that came out, because it was a big indie hit and you put this little film together.

I’m gonna try to be a little diplomatic here just because, with the distance, I now can see that everything happened for a reason and if it didn’t go down that way I would not be where I am right now. It also made me realize that as a producer I could have protected myself more. You do handshake deals and think you’re all one big, happy family, but when money, property and prestige come into play, other folks come into it. I literally was odd man out. I can hazard to say why, and I knew not to fight it. It’s one of these things a lot of people in film face: you can be right, or you can be happy. I chose to be happy. And it took me a while to get happy, but if there’s an opportunity where people don’t want you there then don’t force it because it’s not going to get any better. It was literally: Watch out for next time. And that’s what I did. And I don’t wish anybody ill. I’ll probably write about it when I’m about to leave the business. I can’t talk super publicly about it because I’m still in this business.

Well, it sounds like you got pretty fucked.

Sounds it! [Laughs] I’m just gonna keep drinking my tea. [Raises a glass of tea]

I wanted to ask you about the Project Greenlight moment because I think it was this big pull-back-the-curtain reveal where a lot of people saw how things operate in the back rooms, and not only what people like you have to deal with on a fairly regular basis but also the glaring blind spot of white male Hollywood gatekeepers. I remember watching that when it happened and thinking it was crazy that they even kept that scene in, because Matt Damon and Ben Affleck clearly had control of the final cut. And they not only kept it in, but there’s a scene after where Matt is explaining to the camera essentially why he thinks he’s right. A lot of people were on your side, at least. But what did that moment illuminate for you?

I say this a lot when people bring it up: Thank god for Black Twitter. I really appreciated the support. I’m grateful that that happened, but I don’t know if I would do it again. Mentorship is a huge part of my career and I love giving first-time filmmakers a shot—that’s my jam—but that was about the time where I stopped being ignorant about what was going on. I believed it was a meritocracy. And Project Greenlight does not define me or define my producing experience, but what it does for me is it became very apparent how types of people are treated and how they’re heard or not heard—and from people that are really cool and you’d love to hang out with. It became apparent to me that people have certain blind spots. Like, aggressive blind spots.

But going back to the Meg Ryan thing: People don’t like change and will protect those they’ve put on a certain pedestal. You said people were on my side, but were they? People on Twitter came and rallied for me, a hundred percent, but the aftermath of it was really tough, and it’s something I still have to deal with to this day. It’s gotten so much better and it’s also cut the bullshit for people I work with or want to work with. So, I’m grateful. Project Greenlight was a time where I had to call a thing what it was, and I had to say, oh shit Effie, you’ve normalized this behavior and how they’re treating you and how they’re talking to you. That was like… a Tuesday. That happened all the time. And whenever I talk about this, there are a lot of people who are seen as different or not of the dominant culture who are like, “Girl, I’ve had that same experience.” It’s really prevalent. And I’m grateful to have been a part of that conversation seven years ago, and how wonderful it is now that inclusion, diversity, and parity are on everyone’s lips. If we were some small part of that then it was fucking worth it.

Looking at your resume, the only gap in it is immediately after that incident occurred in 2015. Were you Kaepernick’d?

I wish I was doing something as noble as him.

Oh, I just meant were you being blackballed by the industry.

Oh, a hundred percent I was. Lee Daniels saved me. Lee Daniels came in, called me, and was like, “GIRL!” I was panicked. He said, look, I have my deal over at Fox and I’m looking for someone. Come work for me. He was kind enough to let me come over and EP Star, and he took me under his wing for a year where the blowback sort of died down. And it wasn’t easy for him because he got pushback from people who were like, “Do you really want to work with her?” It was said that I was “confrontational.” It was said that I was “angry.” All the stereotypes of a woman—and a woman of color—in charge. I was like, man, I’m not angry. I’m just doing my job.

You didn’t even push back super hard on Project Greenlight and you were 100% right.

Thank you for saying that. A lot of folks talk about code-switching. It was one of those moments where you can’t talk like you would if you were with your girlfriends being like what?! You just had to go, okay, let me not overenunciate and have a mellifluous voice where I sound like I’m not angry, but then all of a sudden you sound condescending. You can’t win! The other thing is, I see Project Greenlight airing on planes and all this stuff. I didn’t get paid for any of that. I only got paid to do the movie. This is where we talk about equity and ownership. I got zero dollars from the Project Greenlight show. The only thing that I got is that they had to pay us as an actor from that first episode because of Matt and Ben. We all got that. So, the only little check I got from Project Greenlight was the residual for that one episode. But again, I’m glad it happened. It doesn’t define me as a person. And I personally believe it helped start a conversation that then took off. But I wouldn’t go back. I don’t think I would do it again.

But Issa Rae’s in charge now!

I know! But I gotta say, I got out of it once. Twice would be tempting fate.

Did Matt and Ben ever reach out to you to talk about what happened? They certainly haven’t thrown any work your way. I think the right thing to do in a situation like that would be to at least put you on a project to make amends, since they produce a zillion projects.

I think your perception is probably correct. They haven’t done anything untoward or unkind toward me. I can say that.

That you know of.

That I know of. Honestly, I think everybody just wanted to move on. I haven’t seen them since. I did see Peter Farrelly, and I was really happy to see him about a month or so ago. It was really great. I think enough time has passed to where we could talk about it and say, “What did you know?” “What did you see?” “What was your interpretation of that?” It was wonderful that me and Peter could get to that point of ahhhhh, I see you. And we were able to high-five and move on. But I haven’t spoken to anyone else since it aired.

Did you ever get an apology from Matt and Ben?

I think that [Matt] did a public apology, didn’t he? But to me, no. But I think you should probably talk to him about it because I’m good with it. I’m good with where we are and what happened. I’m not mad at it. But let me be real about it: I never saw Matt or Ben prior to Project Greenlight! I don’t run in those circles.

So, Lee Daniels swoops in and helps you. And you’re back now. But how hard was it to build yourself back up to where you were? It’s such a bizarre situation because you didn’t do anything wrong—in fact you were absolutely right—and yet you were persona non grata. That must have been a mindfuck.

You know what? It really was. It was a mindfuck to be like, wow, I’m being punished for something and I didn’t do anything wrong. But then again, that whole experience made me grow up. I don’t think I’d be the producer I am today if I didn’t go through any of that. If I didn’t go through what happened on Dear White People or Project Greenlight, and those happened in quick succession. The dark years. Those experience really made me take stock and ask, what are you doing? Why are you doing it? And I went back to, I always wanted to do this. I believe stories change the world and I’m here for radical service. From But I’m a Cheerleader all the way through to The Inspection, people see my work and know I’m consistent. I do want to do bigger-budgeted movies, but all of these experiences have prepared me for now. In this business you have ups, and you have downs. I had a big down that I feel was through no fault of my own. But if it happens again, I know I’ll get through it.

Let’s talk about the work you’re doing with Gamechanger Films. You were behind Passing and of course The Inspection, which are both excellent. Why did you create the company and what is its mission?

It was 2018 that I took the year down, and that’s when I had my come-to-Jesus moment of just being like, what am I doing? And I realized that I want to produce. I don’t want to have to take jobs because I need the money. I want to be able to do movies to accelerate the conversation within the culture. I wanted to raise my own fund, but I didn’t have access to resources. There was a great guy named Dan Cogan, and he came to me one day and said, “Would you ever run someone else’s fund?” And I was like, hell yeah.

I needed to figure out where the people with high net worth and resources hung out, because I don’t know where they are. He told me he was part of a company called Gamechanger. And there was a wonderful woman named Mynette Louie who was running Gamechanger before where it was just a film fund for women. When I was offered the opportunity, I was like, great. I don’t have to raise money and I can finance movies? Heck, yeah. I’ll take it. Except I don’t want us to be siloed off. I wanted it to be women, people of color, LGBTQIA+, and people with disabilities. My brothers and sisters with disabilities get forgotten about all the time, so let’s give them an opportunity to tell their own stories. They were like, great idea. So, that’s how I came to run Gamechanger in 2020. Now what happened in 2020?

Oh, man.

Exactly. The world shut down. But now we’re back. Gamechanger is a financing, production, and development company. And we do things centering women, people of color, LGBTQIA+ and people with disabilities, but we do it in more of a genre-commercial tone. I want to do thrillers, action, sci-fi, horror. Even The Inspection can sort of fit into that. I want to get people in seats and start conversations.