Ti West gets back to the throwback horror of his 2009 gem The House of the Devil with this weekend’s X, a gnarly slasher about a ragtag 1979 porn movie crew that sets up production at a rented cabin on the farmland property of an elderly couple, and winds up getting more than they bargained for from their hosts.
Riffing on The Texas Chainsaw Massacre while carving out its own unique portrait of multigenerational tensions—and the madness they can spawn—West’s latest is a gory and grimly funny battle of the ages, much of it pivoting around the twisted dynamic that develops between aspiring X-rated starlet Maxine and senior-citizen proprietor Pearl, both of them fearlessly embodied by Mia Goth. Also self-reflexively commenting on its own cinematic construction via producer Wayne (Martin Henderson), headliners Bobby-Lynne (Brittany Snow) and Jackson Hole (Scott Mescudi, aka Kid Cudi), cinematographer RJ (Owen Campbell) and his girlfriend Lorraine’s (Jenna Ortega) efforts to make a smutty classic, X is a grindhouser that’s smarter than it initially appears—even as it makes sure to deliver the splattering money-shot goods.
More intriguing still, X is only the first chapter in a longer saga, as West recently revealed—following the film’s SXSW festival premiere—that he’s already shot a follow-up: a prequel titled Pearl that investigates the WWI-era backstory of Goth’s wrinkled villain. For the writer/director, it’s an opportunity to create the first franchise for A24, long known for “elevated horror” hits such as The Witch, Hereditary, and It Comes At Night. More simply, however, it’s yet another venture that will allow him to strut his scary-cinema stuff—something at which he’s an expert, as evidenced by not only The House of the Devil but also 2011’s The Innkeepers and 2013’s The Sacrament. After a seven-year hiatus from filmmaking during which time he focused his attention on television (helming episodes of Scream, Chambers, Tales from the Loop and Them, among others), X marks his triumphant return to the big screen.
In celebration of X’s theatrical debut, we chatted with the director about the terror of old people, his plans for future entries in the series, subverting Texas Chainsaw-style expectations, and the ’70s porn research demanded by his newest thriller.
Why are old people scary?
Well, some old people are delightful and not scary at all [laughs]. The old people in this movie have, let’s say, some issues, so there’s a little bit to be concerned about there. But I don’t think it’s that old people are scary per se; I think there’s an existential reality for everybody that your time in this life is limited, and the end of it is different—for some people it’s better, and for some people there’s an element of lamenting. There’s a certain part of society that’s reserved for the young, and as you get older, you may become mature in a way that you are less concerned about that, and in some people’s cases, they may have a real resentment and sadness for what is no longer a part of their lives.
The porno crew of X
A24X hinges on a strain of multigenerational bitterness, jealousy, and covetousness. Was there something in particular that inspired you to use those ideas for a slasher effort like this?
For me, in thinking about the “villains” in this movie, I wanted to treat them a little bit like monsters in a monster movie, but also actually have them be real people. In doing so, I wanted their motivations—as skewed and demented as they may be—to still be somewhat relatable. There’s a humanistic element to them, and that’s something I felt hadn’t really been done. I mean, a little bit here and there, but in a movie like this, oftentimes there’s some secret about the people that is supernatural and whatnot, and I just wanted them to be regular people.
When did you decide to have Mia Goth play both Maxine and Pearl, and what was the thinking behind it? It’s not obvious that she’s playing both characters.
Ideally, it is not obvious. Based on experiences so far, for a very small amount of people, it clicks with them during the movie. Most people realize it at the end credits. And then a lot of people, it’s when someone else tells them. Having a movie that can give you that experience—that was part of the reason. I always thought of them as different characters in the movie, but kind of the same person. So the goal was always to have whoever played Maxine also play Pearl. I just didn’t know if we’d be able to find a person to do that.
Mia was one of the first people I met, and she really understood the movie and understood the duality of the characters in a really great way, and in a way that made me think, this person read my script and gets it. I was like, “Here’s what I was thinking I’d like to do,” and I told her about it, and there was this really long pause and I could see her brain processing it, and she was just like, “I could kill this.” I believed her, and I believed in her confidence, and I think that’s what the movie needed. Because it’s a cool idea, but what if you fail at it? We never wanted it to be silly. So, all credit to Mia on that. And then credit to Weta Workshop for making world-class-level prosthetics. In trying to make a horror movie that’s very craft-focus, practical effects are a big part of that craft and I wanted to put that on display. In this movie, I’m hoping that people take away an appreciation for all the different crafts of cinema, one of which is special effects makeup.
X just came out, and yet you’ve already filmed a prequel titled Pearl. How did that come about, and what can you tell us about it—including where it’s at, in terms of production?
It’s basically done: shot, edited, all that stuff. We made them back-to-back, last year. We shot this film in New Zealand, and you have to spend two weeks in quarantine in a hotel before you can get into the country because, at the time, they had zero COVID—which is why we made it there. Two weeks in a room is a long time. I had an idea for the backstory of this character, and for a larger theme for these movies all together, and I had mentioned that to a few people that were part of the movie. They were all charmed by the idea, but I don’t think they really believed I was going to take it anywhere. But I had these two weeks. So I started writing it, and I would FaceTime with Mia, and we would collaborate on writing it. We wrote it in two weeks, and we said, if it’s good, and A24 really believes in this project like they say they do, then maybe we’ll make two movies. If not, then it’s a really great backstory for your character as Pearl, and it’ll be the one that got away.
All credit to A24, who truly believed in the movie that we were making, and then in the other movie I wanted to make. We had an opportunity to be in a country that had zero COVID, and we could make this movie completely safely with no COVID protocols—because it’s obviously not a very social-distanced kind of movie—and the crew of Avatar was on hiatus, so we were able to get that crew. We had everybody, and we were building all these locations, and I thought, we can amortize a lot of this. Believe it or not, it makes sense for us to make two movies back-to-back. I always felt like, if I’m going to make a slasher movie, you have to make some sequels for it. So, I had this idea for a three-part thing, and we’re now two-thirds of the way there.
What’s the status of the third chapter, and does it hinge on how X (and then Pearl) performs?
We kept the last one a secret right up until a few nights ago, which is a miracle in its own right. So I’m going to do my best to continue keeping secrets, because I think these days, it’s very difficult for a movie to come out that you don’t already know a lot about. For me, it’s a real treat that people not know things about it. I’m very hopeful that people keep the spoilers of X to themselves, so that people can experience the movie the same way everyone got to see it these last few days. And Pearl, I’m very excited for everyone to see it. Whatever anyone is expecting, it is not that. So, I would say that, in the vagueness of all that, part three is a continuation of it. I’m confident I have something up my sleeve, but time will tell.
In X, RJ’s (Owen Campbell) desire to shoot the porn film as an avant-garde effort stems from a desire to bring respectability to porn, which is looked at by him as base and sinful—not unlike the horror genre. And yet here you are, making a slasher film for A24, which is typically known for “elevated horror.” How did you convince them to do something this gnarly?
I think they knew the craft of the movie was going to be very particular, and that it was going to be a very filmmaker-driven movie, both narratively and creatively. To me, it’s really a love letter to cinema in a way. I really wanted to make a movie about filmmaking, but I didn’t want to make a movie about Hollywood filmmaking, because I’m not interested in that, and I don’t know anything about it, to be honest with you, because I haven’t experienced it. But I also didn’t want to make a movie about people making a horror movie, because that’s too meta and uninteresting to me.
As you were saying, horror and porn, certainly in the ’70s, have this sort of symbiotic relationship of being the outsider genres that you could make without any permission or any access to the things that Hollywood had to offer, and you could go direct to an audience and you could find a lane there. I thought, well, if I could show people what it’s like to make an adult movie, even though The Farmer’s Daughter has a ceiling of how good it can be, RJ is aiming for that ceiling. He’s been seeing Godard and Fellini, and he does want to be a great filmmaker. In Houston in this time in his life, this is just the only opportunity he has, and he’s trying to make the best of it. I wanted him to be competent. I never wanted you to think he’s an idiot. It’s just funny to try to do something highbrow with something that’s traditionally thought of as lowbrow. That’s not lost on me, in making a slasher movie and trying to craft something more aesthetically highbrow than the genre was traditionally accustomed to.
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is an obvious influence on X. How much do you think about those inspirations, and how do you make sure your reverence doesn’t tip over into mimicry?
When you’re making a genre movie, there are going to be genre movies that came before that are going to loom large over you, and there’s nothing you can do about that. If I didn’t set this in Texas and I set it at a summer camp, I’d have a different movie looming over me. I once made a haunted hotel movie, and I had a great movie looming over me there. There are certain times where that’s not the case, but most of the time, there’s going to be some high-pedestal case—in this case, Texas Chainsaw.
Mia Goth and Mia Goth in X
A24My feeling about that is, OK, then let’s just let everybody think that this is going to be like that, and let them come to their own conclusions and have their own expectations, and then ideally, I subvert that in some way. I love Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I think if you like that movie, you’ll like this movie. Hopefully people that are coming to see this movie will go, I know where this is going, and then at some point not too far into the movie, they’ll look at the person they came with and go, I don’t know where this movie is going, this is so not what I thought it was going to be.
The House of the Devil was also period-piece horror film. Is it easier to set such stories in prior decades, due to a lack of cell phones, social media and similar modern complications?
I suppose from a storytelling standpoint, there are modern things that can make suspension of disbelief a little bit more difficult. But mostly, I’m not really interested, aesthetically, in shooting screens. Like, we are talking through a screen. It is impossible to make a movie set now where people aren’t looking at TVs, phones, computers, whatever—it’s a part of all our lives. It also makes me think about my daily life, and I’d rather be transported to another place, watching this movie. In the case of this movie, it's not outer space or a comic-book land or a fictional city, but it is a different era. I think if you can lose yourself in that era, you can watch the movie more actively rather than thinking about things that relate to your day-to-day stuff.
In this movie in particular, 1979 was the golden age of porn, and the idea was that when you were making an adult film, you still had to make the rest of the movie; now, there’d just be a zoom camera. So there’s reasons for [setting it in the past]. Wayne sees the cusp of VHS coming, and he’s not wrong. 1979 is the end of an era. And the ’70s is probably the most revered time for American filmmaking, where mainstream movies were pretty challenging and sort of experimental, and at the same time exploitation movies were very rich and we had places from drive-ins to 42nd Street. It’s just a rich cultural time for cinema.
Did you do a lot of ’70s porn research, for authenticity’s sake?
I suppose there was a little bit of research, but most of the movie is about making a porn movie, more than the porn itself. Certainly from the aesthetics of the 16mm, and the somewhat familiar conventions of porn of the day, I wanted to get that right, where it was believable. But really, it was kind of irrelevant to worry too much about the specifics of what was exactly happening—other than the fact that Debbie Does Dallas was a movie that was popular, and gave Wayne the idea, and Deep Throat obviously had done well. The content of it was far more about the making of it than the porn.
