MSNBC anchor Joy Reid questioned Rep. Byron Donalds (R-FL) on Thursday about his recent suggestion that the Jim Crow era was better for Black families—and presented the potential Trump running mate with some unpleasant facts about the societal limitations for Black people in that era.
Donalds, at a campaign event in Philadelphia on Tuesday, had said that “the Black family was together” during Jim Crow, a period when segregation was codified by white lawmakers to prevent upward mobility for Black Americans after slavery’s demise.
“During Jim Crow, more Black people were not just conservative—Black people have always been conservative-minded—but more Black people voted conservatively,” Donalds said then.
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Donalds has insisted that critics—of which there are many—are taking him out of context, and that he wasn’t being wistful when he made those remarks. He reiterated that point to Reid.
Democrats, President Joe Biden’s re-election campaign, and some members of the media “want to twist my words for political purposes,” Donalds claimed on The ReidOut.
“The overarching issue is talking just about Black families and why you’re seeing a trend of Black people leaning towards Republicans in this election cycle, and probably in election cycles to come,” he said.
“Part of that is when you’re raising families, raising kids, et cetera, you’re thinking of all the public policy issues, all of the economic issues, and it’s leading people to have divergence in political thoughts. That was the only point. The stuff that comes up about Jim Crow and twisting my words saying I was being nostalgic or Jim Crow was good for Black people, that’s all political spin. It’s a lie. It’s gaslighting and that’s truly unfortunate.”
But Reid wasn’t satisfied by that response. When she followed up by asking what exactly he was getting at by mentioning Jim Crow laws on his own, Donalds said he was just talking about marriage rates.
“If you’re going to use the chronological timeline of America before the Great Society and Lyndon Johnson’s time period, you had unfortunately the Jim Crow era in America. During that time period, the marriage rate of Black Americans was significantly higher than any other time since then in American history,” he said.
“So it is a divergence if you’re talking about marriage rates in the Black community. They have plummeted,” he continued. “What we have seen recently in America, which is a very good thing—we should all celebrate—is marriage rates in the Black community are rising again. That’s good for Black families. That’s definitely good for Black children. It’s something I want to see, I’m sure you want to see it as well.”
The exchange grew testy after Reid wanted to know if Donalds thought there was “a specific period between 1867 and 1968” when there was “this golden era for Black families, or a time that was good for Black families.”
“See, this is where the gaslighting comes in,” Donalds replied, taking offense to Reid’s phrasing. “I never said that! You’re saying I said it was better back then. I never said that.”
After Reid played back the tape and asked about Black fathers’ agency in that era, Donalds acknowledged that Black people “were under great persecution, unfortunately by Southern Democrats and the Democratic Party overall.”
A bit later, Reid described in detail the 1943 lynching of a Black boy in Florida—which his father was essentially powerless to stop—and read an excerpt from her book about Medgar Evers, another lynching victim.
“So, the man in the home during Jim Crow had no rights, could not protect his wife from rape, could not protect his son from lynching,” she said. “So, again, why would you quote that era and say that at that time, the family all being in the home together was something we should think of as a good thing?”
Donalds, after calling the events that Reid cited “disgusting and disgraceful,” claimed once more that he was just talking about marriage rates for Black people at that time.
After a bit of cross-talk, where Reid accused him of trying to “filibuster,” Reid repeated her question. Donalds again accused Reid of “gaslighting.”
Reid’s final question to Donalds, whose wife is white, was if his marriage could have existed during Jim Crow.
“No, it could not, Joy, and we all know that, Joy,” he acknowledged. “That’s why I’m blessed to live in America today as opposed to America during that time. But we cannot ignore the realities of not having fathers in homes. That is important to our Black people today and all people today as we move forward toward a better America.”
